Music By Jason

Music By Jason Forums => The Composers' Workshop => Topic started by: NightShader on January 08, 2005, 08:04:08 PM



Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on January 08, 2005, 08:04:08 PM
Hey everyone,

It's my first time on this forum, and like it already. :)
Jason's music has always been very inspiring to me, and I listen to it almost every day. (Especially when I don't have any inspiration... it helps a lot)

I'm a starting composer too, and just made a new composition last week.
It has been inspired by Jason's music. :) (that's why I post it here)
 
This is the link:
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/Imperial_Guards_-_Conquer.mp3

Please tell me if you'll like it, and what you don't like...
And if Jason himself listens to it, (which would be very honourable), you might give me and others some professional advise, if you like. :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Sylvos on January 10, 2005, 02:03:23 AM
Heya NightShader !

I really liked your music bud, very very intresting indeed! Especially that song Imperial Guards: Conquer! It started with a tune of mystery. Reminds of me odf Shrerlock Holmes movies somehow. lol

Why don't you use the support of choirs within your songs mate? It makes it even better! Now that use Jason's music as an inspiration, it could be nice if you follow some of his well deserved ideas, if you don't mind me saying so.  :roll:   :wink:


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Sylvos on January 10, 2005, 02:12:04 AM
Sure what I meant of that is real choirs not sample choir mate. Real choirs made a different feelings to listeners than sample.  :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on January 10, 2005, 06:58:55 AM
I would really love to use real choirs, but I don't have the money, nor possibility to do so.

A few years ago, I even asked a youth orchestra to perform some of my compositions... but I never heard from them again.

I'm still studying for game-programming and media-composition, so I think I'll have to keep using voice-samples until I find a way to use real ensembles... :(

Thanks for your support. :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Sylvos on January 10, 2005, 07:12:22 AM
Yeah, I know what you mean of that.

Anyway, I guess you can use the same trick that was used by Jason in A Call To Arms in your works. Just imagine, he made a choir out of a person's voice. Very, very impressive! I don't think that using this way could done your work any harm, you know.

Good luck on the furture works bro!


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Jonathan on January 11, 2005, 02:35:46 PM
Did sound ok to me =) No need to work on that choir I think, but that's mho.

Keep working on it!


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Sylvos on January 11, 2005, 02:54:46 PM
Of course it is Jonathan! I just asked that as an idea for NightShader's future works. I guess that choirs are becoming a golden key to success as I haven't found any choir-based song that hasn't become popular!

Take it as a good word man!


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Jonathan on January 11, 2005, 03:15:20 PM
Hehe yeah I agree, choirs are an easy way to make stuff sound more epic. I really love the Symphony of Voices discs (see other topic in the composing hub) a lot. But nothing can beat the real think of course ;)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on January 11, 2005, 05:20:32 PM
Well, at least I could try using a lot of sampled choirs in my next composition.

If you put a lot of time into editting the sound of it, it can be very accurate to the real thing...

Shall I post the new composition here when it's finished? (Hope Jason doesn't mind it...  :wink: )


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Sylvos on January 12, 2005, 12:16:35 AM
I hope that you can send them here mate. Your music is brilliant and I'm looking forward to hear more from it soon. At least let us know when the new music is ready, ok?  :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on January 12, 2005, 01:29:53 AM
I will... :D


Title: Re: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: flibuste on January 31, 2005, 02:48:17 PM
Quote from: "NightShader"
Hey everyone,

I'm a starting composer too, and just made a new composition last week.
It has been inspired by Jason's music. :) (that's why I post it here)
 
This is the link:
www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/Imperial%20Guards%20-%20Conquer.mp3


Allow me this constructive critic:
(but first, excuse my poor english. It's not my first language)

First I like it. As I like Jason's musical tracks.
 The sound quality is good, the mix could be worked out a bit more (mostly the panning) but overall, this sounds very good.

Now, at first hearing, the score sounds a lot like Jason's compositions but I guess that is the genre plus your inspiration that produces this effect.

The introduction sounds like...I'm in twilight zone or something! it's very moody and nice. However, a bit too..."usual". Maybe finding alternative instruments would add to the climax of what's coming next.

I have found that you could enrich the piano arpegios after the first orchestral hit (I don't have the timing...sorry) when the strings kick in and  follow the piano. You could keep the "arpege" on the strings and double it on the piano by enriching the piano score (like going through 2 octaves instead of one, our doubling the notes - I know I'm not making myself clear, but..hey..it's music!), while the main strings carry on the theme.

Very nice usage of choirs and brass afterward for topping the climax, nothing to say about this...

The ending could use a bit more workout, in order to not sound like you simply decided the music needed to be over after a while. As it is now, it is a bit abrupt. Maybe introduce a flute or a wooden pipe or oboes to go down from climax and add some "smoothness" to the end. Well..I say this because I love oboes..

But on the overall, I'd just wish I'd be that good in making music!


Title: in response
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 02:46:16 AM
Fil, I had to respond because your post was a bit overdone.

Please don't take offense to this, but NightShader's music is HIS music, and any critique you offer would subtract his art from itself. In a collaboration those ideas may be well recieved, but composers don't usually want to hear such detailed analyses in the 'Well, i'd do THIS different' vain. It doesn't make compsers feel adequate.

Just be wary when you are speaking to other composers and offering criticisms.


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 01, 2005, 05:01:20 PM
It's ok though... I'm used to it.

I just like hearing the things that have gone right, so that I could use those idea's again... the ones that aren't noticed could be tried again, and the ones that are being disliked, can be removed... :)

Working currently on background music for an action scene in a movie...


Title: Re: in response
Post by: flibuste on February 02, 2005, 03:37:04 PM
Quote from: "Adam"
Fil, I had to respond because your post was a bit overdone.

Please don't take offense to this, but NightShader's music is HIS music, and any critique you offer would subtract his art from itself. In a collaboration those ideas may be well recieved, but composers don't usually want to hear such detailed analyses in the 'Well, i'd do THIS different' vain. It doesn't make compsers feel adequate.

Just be wary when you are speaking to other composers and offering criticisms.


Pheww...I was not intending to be "overdoing" or saying "I would do it differently".  Please do not get me wrong.

I am so used of tweaking my music using advices from my surrounding (familiy of musicians, composers or conductor friends...) that I could not even think that would offense anyone.

I feel equally inadequate when people tell me "Oh! it's great!" without other comments. It was supposed to be more than "great"...they were supposed to "feel" something...and I cannot obviously get it right, right away. So if it's just "great" I would like to know what's not working...

However, I am a bit surprised at your comment. It sounds a bit like "ok, it's HIS music, just listen and that's it - 'We' composers are a special kind". That sounds like a programmer who's having his code reviewed..."It works! Why do you have to have a look at it?".  I happen to be both so I know what it can feel like, and I know it's generally not the best reaction.


Sorry if I offended anyone but I belong to those people who think that providing/receiving critics can only make things better.

Apparently I'm wrong so I'll shut up ;-)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 02, 2005, 04:11:28 PM
It doesn't matter anymore...

I just decided to stop composing.

And I'm a programmer too, a gameprogrammer. But your example is not how I work. :-/

Anyway... maybe I'll quit programming too... maybe I should quit it all.. (-_-')...


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2005, 12:03:46 AM
Fli,

No offense, like I previously stated, my friend! Perhaps language is the barrier that prevents us from understanding each other.

I should learn yours so that I may better express myself!!!!!  :lol:

My advice was just this: Too much criticizm can be counter productive, and (in my humble opinion) you should be careful that you don't come off sounding like you want the piece re-written. That's all. Critiques are important, but there is a fine line between offering FIXES to problems and interjecting things that would be conducive to your own personal compositional style. Your ideas were great, but maybe not great for N...see what I mean?

As a composer and a critic myself, I offer these words out of experience. People don't want to hear my criticizm all the time, even when asked i've learned to say as little as possible.

This is me, rather, attempting not to be too critical of you! (hee hee!!).

Much love!


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2005, 12:09:45 AM
Oh, btw Nightshader, don't be a retard!  :wink:

Your music shows a TON of potential! Keep listening and you will improve. I think it's a damn shame when people give up on their art. Any art, for that matter.

No one composer feels that they are adequate, hence my comment to Fli. We are not a 'special' bunch like Fli suggested I was implying in my first post, but rather, a sensitive and egotistical (in our own ways and to different degrees, of course!) group that needs support more than anything else.

I say, don't quit. Never quit. Even if people NEVER hear your work, the act of composing can be like manifesting positive though and emitting love through sonic pathways. You have the will, the desire, and the budding talent.

Please don't quit!

your friend,

Adam


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 03, 2005, 09:34:03 AM
It's just that I haven't been able to come up with a song for more than a month...

I feel so empty, like there's no 'will' no 'spirit' and no 'imagination/inspiration' left in me...

The last song I composed, was more likely to be live recorded in 4 times, and express my current feelings...

http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/SadMood.mp3

*sigh*


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: graincloud on February 07, 2005, 08:56:09 PM
I was going to continue lurking until I read this post. There is dialoge going on here that I completely did not expect.

First of all, Nightshader, everyone goes through periods of time where they can't do creatively what they love to do. You can have all the passion in the world, but if other things require attention in life, usually they take presedence. I've been doing music for a long time now, and can look back at  several long chunks of time (exeeding 2 years) where nothing came out. You can't beat yourself up over it. If you think about it too much, and let it bother you, it will just get worse. It's a Zen kaon!   :idea:

During these periods of creative lapse, I tend to either plow forward or stop until i feel it's ready. The benefit of moving forward, despite what your heart tells you, is that you have a chance to do further learning of your creative craft. Even if you can't feel the love for it, you are still using it as a tool and therefor learning about its infinite possibilites. Or you can live life and ignore the creative stuff for a while. This is also equally important as who wants to listen to a composer who has nothing to say?

Now, Adam, your post is a bit padded.  :wink:


 
Quote
Please don't take offense to this, but NightShader's music is HIS music, and any critique you offer would subtract his art from itself.


How can one subtract art? After reading all the posts I listened to the track, and it sounded exactly the same to me as it did before. Offering advice doesnt destroy any of the work he did on the music, or the music itself; in that way it is indestructable. I went to college and studied music and poetry, and had extremely wonderful professors in each subject area. What made those professors amazing was the fact that they offered suggestions and critiques. They didnt just stand there passively and blink their eyes and mutter small quips under their breath. I think the whole point of this forum section is to offer advice and critique. Hense the title "Workshop." Without it, it's that much harder to grow as a musician.

Quote
In a collaboration those ideas may be well recieved, but composers don't usually want to hear such detailed analyses in the 'Well, i'd do THIS different' vain. It doesn't make compsers feel adequate.


Maybe Adam has an adequacy issue? Who are these "composers" you speak of? If i didnt get constant feedback and critique from my work as it went into games I would a) freak out b) think something was wrong c) half expect to be fired. If you are not willing to hear other people's opinions on your music, then you are not willing to let the music be...music. Because someone critiques something doesn't mean the creator has to go back and make all/any the suggested changes. Because of this, not wanting to hear advice is akin to the closed eyes, batting of the ears NYA NYA NYA method of ignoring someone that we did when we were all 3 years old.

Don't mean to rip into you Adam, I know that you meant to be sweet and to protect Nightsader, but I think he's a big enough boy to listen to what other people have to to offer.

And I liked all the pieces you posted Nightshader! Keep it up!


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2005, 11:17:00 PM
Perhaps my point wasn't clear.

Let me try again, so I don't look like a total ass.

Critique is only as good as:

1) The person giving it.
2) The respect you have for the person giving it.

No offense to Flibuste, but it's really hard to gauge opinions when we really don't know much about each other.

Internet forums are NOT a good place to recieve quality critique of ones work. I don't believe that Nightshader should take any of it seriously. This is not a college, Flibuste is hardly an 'amazing professor' from a major university (no offense)...this is merely a forum where people can express their opinions, give or take. Honsetly, Grain, are you comparing Flibuste's offerings to those you may get from a top notch college professor? Give me a break.

I guess you nailed me on that one, Graincloud. I DO have major inadequacy issues and I need some serious help.  :wink: No, I jest, but there are times in which EVERY composer I know feels that they aren't good enough. No matter how good they are. Grain, you telling me you are SO talented that there is never a time when you doubt your own abilities? If you DON'T DOUBT YOURSELF, you'll never get better!

I enjoy critique as much as the next guy, but I don't solicit opinions from people who's work I don't respect, or whos ideals I am not akin to. Maybe Nightshader got what he asked for.

It kind of reminds me of that loud-mouthed kid in my Comp Workshop class, who never produced anything worthwhile (or ANYTHING for that matter), but seemed to think that it was his place to tear down everyone's work just the same. Now, Flibuste didn't exceed that level of extremist-composer-facist-nazi-bastardism, but I spoke out as a word of warning to those who might think that this is a forum to bash other people's work. Then again, Nightshader just posted his work and asked for critique, so again, perhaps he got what he asked for!

It could be my bleeding-heart-protect-my-own-kind thing. See? I don't know Flibuste, so I go into defensive mode. Ah well.

Nevertheless, I don't believe that internet forums are a good place to start doubting ones abilites. Its not a good place to get critique that can really benefit you as a composer.

Unless, of course, Thomas Newman stops by.  8)

Graincloud, your post doesn't address the real issue...you're off topic, my friend. Do you feel that offering specific blow-by-blow critique in an anonymous forum is beneficial from a creative point of view? I most certainly do not.


Title: One last thing...
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2005, 11:42:10 PM
I'm reading my original post, and I'm realizing now what the issue is.

In my original post I wrote "any critiqe you offer" not referring to the process of critique, but rather, in response to Flibuste about the way in which he critiqued Nightshader's work! In reading my responses, I never ONCE purposely incinuated that 'critique' or the process of is detrimental...Flibuste's words were not helpful in anyway that Nightshader might actually improve his work. Just my opinion.

I NEVER said CRITIQUE was bad! Even I misunderstood myself! Maybe I SHOULD just stick to music...my knack for words, perhaps, eludes me.

Listen, kids.  My issue was with the way in which Flibuste critiqued Nightshader. I just felt that he overstepped his boundaries as a fellow forum poster. That's all. See my last post for clarification on this paragraph!  :lol:

Nevertheless, lets squash this.


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 08, 2005, 06:43:39 AM
Hm... it's going a little bit better now.

Made another little song for a short movie.
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/MajidFight.mp3

And everything that graincloud says, has been confirmed by my teacher yesterday...
Thank you graincloud.

And Adam,
I did get what I asked for, I'm willing to hear opinions from all kind of people, not only the musicians, but also the people that listen to it. I kinda filter the useful and less useful opinions for myself. :)

I just can't stand it when I'm out of creativity... (-_-')


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: graincloud on February 08, 2005, 03:18:32 PM
You are right Adam, I definately did get off topic, and i'm sorry. I think this whole thing was me reading too much into the lines, and the last thing I wanted was to turn NS's music thread into a combat zone lol. So moving on!

Nightshader, you mentioned wanting to get real vocal work done. There are a few approaches you can take that you might not have considered yet. If you are in a big urban area, checking the newspaper wanted sections(or wherever you get your Wanted info :) may yeild some talent. I do some vocal recording, and all my voice talent I met this way, and they are all very willing people and want to simply work. Almost all of them are also working for free, unless cash somehow comes into the project.  You do however have to be willing to sift through lots of people until you find the ones that fit just right. Universities are another great place to pick up voice talent. Sometimes even the people you work with have great voices! Keep your ears peeled.


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 08, 2005, 03:33:53 PM
Problem is....

I don't have a good way to record voices without a lot of noise...

Second... I'm not good with people... I'm a loner...


Title: Breathe!
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2005, 09:57:38 PM
Hey Grain, no problem. I enjoy discussing my most treasured passion this way. It's always good to get new ideas and hear voices I may not hear outside of my circle.

Thanks for the intelligent conversation.  8)

Nightshader: Hey, bro. Listen up. It may help you to connect with some other composers in your area that have experience dealing with people on that level. The best way to learn studio etiquette is to be in and around working studios and composers. That's how I was 'broken in'. Like a well used baseball glove...it happens faster than you might imagine.

Also, if you have friends that know vocalists, have your friend come with the vocalist to the session. This may help break the ice.

It's always hard to be in new situations. Jumping in head first will scare away the butterflies.

Let your passion drive you through this. If you want to be a composer/producer/whatever bad enough, you'll deal with the insecurities and focus on the goal: Creating great music.

We all get insecure. It's how we deal with those insecurities that separate the successful from the...not so.

Good luck, and keep focused.

Adam Gubman


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 09, 2005, 01:34:19 AM
Quote
It may help you to connect with some other composers in your area that have experience dealing with people on that level.


There are no other composers in my area...

Quote
Also, if you have friends that know vocalists, have your friend come with the vocalist to the session.


I do not have any friends...

Quote
If you want to be a composer/producer/whatever bad enough


I do not aim to be a professional composer.. I just need to create things to keep emotionally stable...

Thanks for all your advice anyway, but I've already tried some of them, and I'm not just like any other human.


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Michael B. on February 09, 2005, 11:24:45 AM
Quote from: "NightShader"

http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/SadMood.mp3
*sigh*


Wow... I love that song... Any chance you could send me the piano music?  That is so great... I'd love to learn it.  If so, I have an email (If it's a .pdf or anything)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 09, 2005, 11:32:22 AM
Do you mean the piano sheets?
Or a piano-record music?

I don't have the sheets... I just played it right out of my head...
But I could make you one though...


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 10, 2005, 10:12:18 AM
Some more piano pieces of me...

http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/Crime.mp3
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/DancingGhosts.mp3
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/WanderingGirl.mp3
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/WanderingGirl%20Orchestrated.mp3


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 19, 2005, 07:59:33 PM
Hm... this kinda starts to have nothing to do with Jason Hayes actually... but anyway...

Finished a new song... for a mainmenu in a game...

http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/AJ_Menu.mp3

And an Ingame level song
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/AJ_Level1.mp3

Suggestions?


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on February 21, 2005, 03:22:40 PM
Music sheets of SadMood downloadable here.

http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/SadMood.pdf


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Alex on February 28, 2005, 01:22:59 PM
I'm no composer, but the first song is nicely arranged and a pleasure to listen to.  

I'll listen to the 2nd song and give my impressions, for all they are worth anyways.

Edit: The second song is also a nice piece.  After listening to the first song again, I want to again tell you that it is a very nicely arranged piece and that you have quite a nice bit of talent.

Edit: Took out the choral support, the piece is fine without it.


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: hollow on March 02, 2005, 06:36:50 AM
i realy like the menu.mp3 song!
:)
gj!


Title: Let's make it short
Post by: flibuste on March 02, 2005, 02:23:52 PM
Adam: you rock! You opened a hearty discussion and finally we all end up agreeing in the end.

Nightshader: hold on! Inspiration comes and go. Works in music as much as in programming. But you've figured it all out already I'm sure.

Hope you all continue in your endeavour and keep the courage to do it. Those tasks we do take a lot of everything out of us. It's good to have and provide support!


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: ShyWolf on April 07, 2005, 02:40:57 PM
Beautiful songs Nightshader...as a poet I think U should relax coz inspiration will come to you...if not nature will help you soon :-)
keep the amazing work !


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Sylvos on April 08, 2005, 04:53:37 AM
I couldn't agree any more ShyWolf!  :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Daelin on August 18, 2005, 11:50:47 PM
Aww man... The links are broken. Did you take them off the site? I wish I could've listen to these as well. By now I listened to two of your themes and they were really cool. I would want to listen to some other stuff by you.

~Daelin


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on August 19, 2005, 03:49:56 AM
Just found out about it myself, going to fix those links right away.
You can listen some songs at my website aswell. www.liquidgamestudios.com maybe the links work there...

Edit:
Ok, all links on this tread are fixed now. Enjoy. :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Daelin on August 19, 2005, 07:33:01 AM
Action1: I like the melody itself, and the instruments. Very nice! It reminds me of Final Fantasy battle themes but in a nicer way. Superb!

Menu: Really fits a menu, but would go as an heroic theme as well. Very nice! I really love this one! The instruments, the way you composed it, everything! Professional!

Ambient: It was not supposed to be really a melodic theme, atleast not the whole. I didn't really like the beginning (a little dull) but when I heard how it continued, I realized that it is really good. Nice! Would fit as a tension theme! I don't like it as much as the other themes, but it is still very good.

The Crime: Hmm, I have something with piano. I like the way you composed it, not fanstastic wow wow but cool. It's not that it isn't very good, it's just that I've lately had something with stuff sang only at the piano.

Dancing Ghosts: More interesting piano theme. I don't really like some things about interpretation! It sounded me as if you hit the tabs, in a... hmm, let's say harsh way. Being more gentle even for such themes would be nice. The way you interpreted it makes it sound heavy. Just an advice... ;) And you could use some crescendos in some places, I cannot really tell without a score. And also, some pianos would be nice. Not only forte! Sorry if I mispelled the overtones (OMG... I don't know all these musical terms in english). So sorry about that!

Symphony of Voices: The drums and rhytm doesn't really fit the atmosphere, and still, it is very original.  just don't get how you guys make these voices! Nice harmonies.

Wandering Girl: Interesting. I cannot really say that the style attracted me but it is interesting nevertheless and well made!

In a Sad Mood: Awsome! Harmonies are great! Just incredible! I like the interpretation this time. Gentle and you can feel the sad mood. That's what a good interpretation is about! My piano teacher used to drive me crazy with this, telling me that when I'm playing something dramatic, I should feel like that, I just didn't feel like being dramatic in those moments. But when I had a piano exam for example, I always put my feelings into the melody. But back to the sound, one of your best!

Imperial Guards: Once again, Warcraft atmosphere. I like it! Dramatic but heroic. Really impredictable! I don't have anything else to say, the song tells everything!

Dude, you are incredible. You either have musical studies, or you have an amazing talent! I am impressed! If there would've been a reason for me to remain in the domain of music, it would've been so that I could be able to compose something like this.

~Daelin


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on August 19, 2005, 10:30:51 AM
I started playing the piano at an age of 5 years old.
I've done a music college at an age of 13 years old. (and graduated after 3 years.)
Currently I do composing class for films and games.

And thanks for the feedback. :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Anonymous on August 23, 2005, 09:35:26 AM
Hey man, some of the stuff is pretty cool.

Might I suggest you use a string patch with a tighter release, or at least edit it so they sound a bit more crisp...

Are you programming your own drums or using samples? They impressed me the most!  8)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on August 23, 2005, 10:47:13 AM
Depends which song you mean about the drums.

Sometimes I use drumloops, and sometimes loops+patches, and sometimes it's just a drumpatch :).

Example:
"Murder" has loops+drumpatch
"BE-Ambient1" has only loops
"Hunted" has only drumpatch


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Daelin on August 24, 2005, 12:11:16 AM
Oooh, I was wondering about another thing... :roll: What program do you use to compose this music? I'm curious because I don't know any programs capable of composing music. Sorry for being offtopic...

~Daelin


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on August 24, 2005, 04:02:18 AM
I use GigaStudio3 and Reason as samplers, and Sonar4 to write the music.


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: kuni on August 24, 2005, 05:18:46 AM
Oh gosh, your piano music is a HUGE inspiration to me, NightShader.  I love how much emotion and expression you've gotten out of such a clean composition style.  Thank you for being generous enough to post the sheet music for Sad Mood.  Just staring at the notes and how they were formed led me to several revelations about why I struggle so much as a composer, almost instantaneously...it was bizarre.  You are doing so many things right.  I would say more, but the words aren't quite coming.  So, thank you. :)

As for your other work posted here, there's a relaxed, natural undertone to most of the songs, which really works for them.  Many composers seem to get tripped up on forcing a structure to their music rather than just let it flow; yours flows nicely, seems natural.

I look forward to seeing how your music will develop as time passes.  Definitely do NOT give up on this path, okay? :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Anonymous on August 24, 2005, 09:23:50 PM
Nightshader, how old are you? You seem young. Yes?

Kuni...I said it to Flibuste two months ago...

Try not to over-do it. How 'bout mixing that up with a little bit of constructive criticism?


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Melda on August 24, 2005, 11:35:20 PM
Adam does have a point.

No composition is ever truly perfect -- there is always room for improvement (however, it can be unhealthy to revise ad infinitum, so stopping and saying 'right, this is finished now' is necessary at some point).

Compliments are nice to receive, but if people only hear good things, they will become complacent and never feel any urge to improve themselves, or challenge themselves.

Sure, compliments boost confidence and encourage people, but too much can be downright hazardous.

I haven't actually listened to the music in question (now that my Internet situation is sorted out I might make more of an effort), but I just felt the need to back Adam up and point this out. (http://forums.samods.org/html/emoticons/smile.gif)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Tom Servo on August 25, 2005, 12:54:15 PM
I agree ... whole-heartedly.  Now, not that this is in anyway detracting from NightShader's music, but have you guys read what you've posted?  I mean, really read them?  I read on one thread that someone "didn't want to live anymore" after hearing one of NightShader's tunes.

really?  not wanting to live?  really?  So you're saying that his music was so good that it made you not want to breathe again?  His music may have some merit, but hardly that much I assure you.  I also hear words like "brilliant", "amazing", and "genius" thrown around like jello in a cafeteria food fight.  

really?  The music may be good ... or even really well-done ... but be careful of using genius and brilliant and amazing ... or even comparing NightShader's music to Jason's ... we're talking about two completely different echelons and a vast difference in experience.

Take everything in context.  And be honest without being deconstructive.  And I'll throw my two cents in right now ... without regard to production quality:

Nightshader ... these are just my opinions and are meant to be nothing more than helpful ... if they help you great ... if not, then leave them and move on the next person.

The CONQUER mp3 you first posted on this thread:  pretty good.  It sounds like you are using the same progression over and over again ... which isn't a bad thing ... sounds like Am - F - Em - Dm - C -
F - E .... is that close?  It's a cool progression, but I was hoping for a bright spot of change somewhere ... kind of like a B section or bridge of a song.  Where we hit somewhere new and unexpected.  In a piece like this ... hitting a nice Bb major chord would add some brightness and some life to a melodic passage that arrives on F.  Also ... your use of percussion ... I love rhythm ... but someone once told me that percussion is only secondary rhythm .... what I mean is that if you are using percussion to "carry" the rhythmic ideas of a section, then it's NOT as effective as having parts of the orchestra grooving on something and having the percussion accentuate that and enhance that.  Keep in mind, this doesn't always work, but a good idea nonetheless I think.  I would've like to have heard some more woodwinds grooving on those rhythmic ideas the timpani, snare, and bass drum were doing towards the end.

SAD MOOD:  OK ... some of the same issues I had with Conquer ... you are using the same melody over and over again ... just orchestrated and arranged differently.  I like the melody, but I really wanted to hear it go somewhere else.  You know?  It's like saying the same sentence over and over again but with different inflection ... after a while ... no matter what the inflection it gets old.  So to keep it fresh and to keep your listener hooked, you need to develop it ... same with the chord progression from the last tune.  I think you have some decent ideas, you just need to really sit down and learn how to develop an idea as opposed to repeating it.  How do you learn how to develop?  Listen ... and sit down with a score.  Listen to Beethoven's symphonies ... listen to the opening theme in a movement, and then listen to the coda and hear what he does to change it .. it's amazing.  Listen to the way Bach takes a melody and plays around with it in major, minor, and on the I, the V, the IV, even the vi ... sounds great.  Listen and see how Schoenberg takes a melody and inverts it, uses it backwards, and upside down.  All kinds of tricks.  But also listen to how they keep it fresh.

MAJID FIGHT: this one was pretty good ... other than ripping off the Batman theme!!  Hahaha... but it's such a tasty theme ... you're in A minor (again!! ... just kidding) ... so the use of a melody like  A-B-C-F-E will always draw attention to itself as the Batman theme... thanks a ton Danny Elfman ... but that's the way it goes.  I think there' a lot more developing that you could do with this one as well.

OK ... I'll stop.  :)  But NightShader I think you should focus on being a great composer first ... don't worry about writing programmatic material.  All of your music seems to be a backdrop to some intangible that we can only imagine.  I'd like to see you study some great composers and be able to develop your thematic ideas.  Make sense?  Let your inspiration be writing a great piece of music and you'll be surprised what happens when you're not guided by a scene on film or an idea of a character.  Film music can afford to be a little more plain and redundant because it is not the main character in a film ... but you'll find that it's easier to create better sounding redundant music when you are fully aware of how to compose a great "stand-alone" piece of music.  Once you understand that, then dive in and rock the video game music's world.  But when I am sending out demos to get a film gig, then yes, it is all "film score-ish" material and is serving as a backdrop to some on-screen action.  But I also write music just to write music .. writing woodwind quintets, and brass ensembles ... arranging music for jazz bands and composing for wind ensembles.  So it's good, I think, to be doing both kinds of writing.

I hope this helps ... if not, then leave it and I'm sorry to have wasted your time.  :)   Just remember: development.  theme and variation.  Listen to Bach's Goldberg Variations .... it will blow your mind.

-jeff


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: NightShader on August 25, 2005, 05:45:29 PM
Quote from: "Adam"
Nightshader, how old are you? You seem young. Yes?


I'm 21 years old.
I play piano for 15 years now.
I'm also graduated for music-college.

@Tom Servo
I'll specially make a classical approached song for you. :)


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Tom Servo on August 25, 2005, 06:40:46 PM
NightShader ... I'm touched ... just for me?  

 :cry:


But will changing genres all of a sudden bring out masterful touches in your work?  Those should be there all the time.  But I'm anxiuos to see!

 :D

-jeff


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Anonymous on August 26, 2005, 01:04:44 AM
Quote from: "NightShader"

@Tom Servo
I'll specially make a classical approached song for you. :)


Ok, Pascal, don't miss Jeff's point. His suggesting that you develop your ideas instead of run loops does NOT have anything to do with 'classical' music, as you put it. Development can be found in most styles of music. Thats what bridges, second verses, and final choruses are for in the 'neo-classical pop' style that you utilize.

Jeff's point was right on the money.

He and I both write pop and 'video game' music that has development. It has nothing to do with being 'classically' trained. If it did, then 'development' would be a characteristic of that style ONLY. Not the case. There are plenty of baroque and early baroque (post rennaissance) music that contains melodic and harmonic development. And I'm NOT talking about using secondary dominants to get to the V in the B section...I'm talking about something more carnal, more cerebral...creating variety by molding a simple idea.

You can come up with hours of material based upon a sequence of five notes. Not that I listen to or LIKE music as processed as that, but it's a good example of an extreme one can go to in order to create motion in their piece.

Jeff said to me, earlier today, (and I agree), that there are many musicians who have some theoretical knowledge and think that that is enough to compose 'game music'. Well, unfortunately, that may be the case at first. A musician may be able to pass off a chart or two, but the really successful composers are the ones who constantly study music and learn the CRAFT of composition. Now, if THIS is your definition of 'classical', then so be it. Learning how to compose is quite conservative. But shit, the composers who REALLY succeed in their kraft are the ones who have a huge bag of tricks to pull from.

In othewords, your music has to be, to some degree, challenging to listen to.

Even Jason, who doesn't have a 'traditional' degree in music has studied TONS of scores and material, gone to seminars, consulted with mentors, and listented to whatever he can get a hold of. Jason's always quite excited when he can get his hand on a new score.

Food for thought.

I want to challenge you a bit, because you are so ballsy to post your music often...you asked for it, brother.  :wink:


Title: New composition by me, suggestions?
Post by: Punisher_x on September 30, 2005, 10:53:01 PM
I am very impressed with this and almost all your work. Good job top maks from me.