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Author Topic: New composition by me, suggestions?  (Read 57023 times)
NightShader
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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2005, 04:11:28 PM »

It doesn't matter anymore...

I just decided to stop composing.

And I'm a programmer too, a gameprogrammer. But your example is not how I work. :-/

Anyway... maybe I'll quit programming too... maybe I should quit it all.. (-_-')...
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Pascal van Stekelenburg
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2005, 12:03:46 AM »

Fli,

No offense, like I previously stated, my friend! Perhaps language is the barrier that prevents us from understanding each other.

I should learn yours so that I may better express myself!!!!!  :lol:

My advice was just this: Too much criticizm can be counter productive, and (in my humble opinion) you should be careful that you don't come off sounding like you want the piece re-written. That's all. Critiques are important, but there is a fine line between offering FIXES to problems and interjecting things that would be conducive to your own personal compositional style. Your ideas were great, but maybe not great for N...see what I mean?

As a composer and a critic myself, I offer these words out of experience. People don't want to hear my criticizm all the time, even when asked i've learned to say as little as possible.

This is me, rather, attempting not to be too critical of you! (hee hee!!).

Much love!
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2005, 12:09:45 AM »

Oh, btw Nightshader, don't be a retard!  :wink:

Your music shows a TON of potential! Keep listening and you will improve. I think it's a damn shame when people give up on their art. Any art, for that matter.

No one composer feels that they are adequate, hence my comment to Fli. We are not a 'special' bunch like Fli suggested I was implying in my first post, but rather, a sensitive and egotistical (in our own ways and to different degrees, of course!) group that needs support more than anything else.

I say, don't quit. Never quit. Even if people NEVER hear your work, the act of composing can be like manifesting positive though and emitting love through sonic pathways. You have the will, the desire, and the budding talent.

Please don't quit!

your friend,

Adam
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NightShader
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2005, 09:34:03 AM »

It's just that I haven't been able to come up with a song for more than a month...

I feel so empty, like there's no 'will' no 'spirit' and no 'imagination/inspiration' left in me...

The last song I composed, was more likely to be live recorded in 4 times, and express my current feelings...

http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/SadMood.mp3

*sigh*
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Pascal van Stekelenburg
graincloud
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« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2005, 08:56:09 PM »

I was going to continue lurking until I read this post. There is dialoge going on here that I completely did not expect.

First of all, Nightshader, everyone goes through periods of time where they can't do creatively what they love to do. You can have all the passion in the world, but if other things require attention in life, usually they take presedence. I've been doing music for a long time now, and can look back at  several long chunks of time (exeeding 2 years) where nothing came out. You can't beat yourself up over it. If you think about it too much, and let it bother you, it will just get worse. It's a Zen kaon!   :idea:

During these periods of creative lapse, I tend to either plow forward or stop until i feel it's ready. The benefit of moving forward, despite what your heart tells you, is that you have a chance to do further learning of your creative craft. Even if you can't feel the love for it, you are still using it as a tool and therefor learning about its infinite possibilites. Or you can live life and ignore the creative stuff for a while. This is also equally important as who wants to listen to a composer who has nothing to say?

Now, Adam, your post is a bit padded.  :wink:


 
Quote
Please don't take offense to this, but NightShader's music is HIS music, and any critique you offer would subtract his art from itself.


How can one subtract art? After reading all the posts I listened to the track, and it sounded exactly the same to me as it did before. Offering advice doesnt destroy any of the work he did on the music, or the music itself; in that way it is indestructable. I went to college and studied music and poetry, and had extremely wonderful professors in each subject area. What made those professors amazing was the fact that they offered suggestions and critiques. They didnt just stand there passively and blink their eyes and mutter small quips under their breath. I think the whole point of this forum section is to offer advice and critique. Hense the title "Workshop." Without it, it's that much harder to grow as a musician.

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In a collaboration those ideas may be well recieved, but composers don't usually want to hear such detailed analyses in the 'Well, i'd do THIS different' vain. It doesn't make compsers feel adequate.


Maybe Adam has an adequacy issue? Who are these "composers" you speak of? If i didnt get constant feedback and critique from my work as it went into games I would a) freak out b) think something was wrong c) half expect to be fired. If you are not willing to hear other people's opinions on your music, then you are not willing to let the music be...music. Because someone critiques something doesn't mean the creator has to go back and make all/any the suggested changes. Because of this, not wanting to hear advice is akin to the closed eyes, batting of the ears NYA NYA NYA method of ignoring someone that we did when we were all 3 years old.

Don't mean to rip into you Adam, I know that you meant to be sweet and to protect Nightsader, but I think he's a big enough boy to listen to what other people have to to offer.

And I liked all the pieces you posted Nightshader! Keep it up!
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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2005, 11:17:00 PM »

Perhaps my point wasn't clear.

Let me try again, so I don't look like a total ass.

Critique is only as good as:

1) The person giving it.
2) The respect you have for the person giving it.

No offense to Flibuste, but it's really hard to gauge opinions when we really don't know much about each other.

Internet forums are NOT a good place to recieve quality critique of ones work. I don't believe that Nightshader should take any of it seriously. This is not a college, Flibuste is hardly an 'amazing professor' from a major university (no offense)...this is merely a forum where people can express their opinions, give or take. Honsetly, Grain, are you comparing Flibuste's offerings to those you may get from a top notch college professor? Give me a break.

I guess you nailed me on that one, Graincloud. I DO have major inadequacy issues and I need some serious help.  :wink: No, I jest, but there are times in which EVERY composer I know feels that they aren't good enough. No matter how good they are. Grain, you telling me you are SO talented that there is never a time when you doubt your own abilities? If you DON'T DOUBT YOURSELF, you'll never get better!

I enjoy critique as much as the next guy, but I don't solicit opinions from people who's work I don't respect, or whos ideals I am not akin to. Maybe Nightshader got what he asked for.

It kind of reminds me of that loud-mouthed kid in my Comp Workshop class, who never produced anything worthwhile (or ANYTHING for that matter), but seemed to think that it was his place to tear down everyone's work just the same. Now, Flibuste didn't exceed that level of extremist-composer-facist-nazi-bastardism, but I spoke out as a word of warning to those who might think that this is a forum to bash other people's work. Then again, Nightshader just posted his work and asked for critique, so again, perhaps he got what he asked for!

It could be my bleeding-heart-protect-my-own-kind thing. See? I don't know Flibuste, so I go into defensive mode. Ah well.

Nevertheless, I don't believe that internet forums are a good place to start doubting ones abilites. Its not a good place to get critique that can really benefit you as a composer.

Unless, of course, Thomas Newman stops by.  Cool

Graincloud, your post doesn't address the real issue...you're off topic, my friend. Do you feel that offering specific blow-by-blow critique in an anonymous forum is beneficial from a creative point of view? I most certainly do not.
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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2005, 11:42:10 PM »

I'm reading my original post, and I'm realizing now what the issue is.

In my original post I wrote "any critiqe you offer" not referring to the process of critique, but rather, in response to Flibuste about the way in which he critiqued Nightshader's work! In reading my responses, I never ONCE purposely incinuated that 'critique' or the process of is detrimental...Flibuste's words were not helpful in anyway that Nightshader might actually improve his work. Just my opinion.

I NEVER said CRITIQUE was bad! Even I misunderstood myself! Maybe I SHOULD just stick to music...my knack for words, perhaps, eludes me.

Listen, kids.  My issue was with the way in which Flibuste critiqued Nightshader. I just felt that he overstepped his boundaries as a fellow forum poster. That's all. See my last post for clarification on this paragraph!  :lol:

Nevertheless, lets squash this.
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NightShader
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2005, 06:43:39 AM »

Hm... it's going a little bit better now.

Made another little song for a short movie.
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/MajidFight.mp3

And everything that graincloud says, has been confirmed by my teacher yesterday...
Thank you graincloud.

And Adam,
I did get what I asked for, I'm willing to hear opinions from all kind of people, not only the musicians, but also the people that listen to it. I kinda filter the useful and less useful opinions for myself. Smiley

I just can't stand it when I'm out of creativity... (-_-')
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Pascal van Stekelenburg
graincloud
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2005, 03:18:32 PM »

You are right Adam, I definately did get off topic, and i'm sorry. I think this whole thing was me reading too much into the lines, and the last thing I wanted was to turn NS's music thread into a combat zone lol. So moving on!

Nightshader, you mentioned wanting to get real vocal work done. There are a few approaches you can take that you might not have considered yet. If you are in a big urban area, checking the newspaper wanted sections(or wherever you get your Wanted info Smiley may yeild some talent. I do some vocal recording, and all my voice talent I met this way, and they are all very willing people and want to simply work. Almost all of them are also working for free, unless cash somehow comes into the project.  You do however have to be willing to sift through lots of people until you find the ones that fit just right. Universities are another great place to pick up voice talent. Sometimes even the people you work with have great voices! Keep your ears peeled.
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NightShader
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2005, 03:33:53 PM »

Problem is....

I don't have a good way to record voices without a lot of noise...

Second... I'm not good with people... I'm a loner...
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Pascal van Stekelenburg
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2005, 09:57:38 PM »

Hey Grain, no problem. I enjoy discussing my most treasured passion this way. It's always good to get new ideas and hear voices I may not hear outside of my circle.

Thanks for the intelligent conversation.  Cool

Nightshader: Hey, bro. Listen up. It may help you to connect with some other composers in your area that have experience dealing with people on that level. The best way to learn studio etiquette is to be in and around working studios and composers. That's how I was 'broken in'. Like a well used baseball glove...it happens faster than you might imagine.

Also, if you have friends that know vocalists, have your friend come with the vocalist to the session. This may help break the ice.

It's always hard to be in new situations. Jumping in head first will scare away the butterflies.

Let your passion drive you through this. If you want to be a composer/producer/whatever bad enough, you'll deal with the insecurities and focus on the goal: Creating great music.

We all get insecure. It's how we deal with those insecurities that separate the successful from the...not so.

Good luck, and keep focused.

Adam Gubman
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NightShader
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« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2005, 01:34:19 AM »

Quote
It may help you to connect with some other composers in your area that have experience dealing with people on that level.


There are no other composers in my area...

Quote
Also, if you have friends that know vocalists, have your friend come with the vocalist to the session.


I do not have any friends...

Quote
If you want to be a composer/producer/whatever bad enough


I do not aim to be a professional composer.. I just need to create things to keep emotionally stable...

Thanks for all your advice anyway, but I've already tried some of them, and I'm not just like any other human.
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Pascal van Stekelenburg
Michael B.
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2005, 11:24:45 AM »

Quote from: "NightShader"


Wow... I love that song... Any chance you could send me the piano music?  That is so great... I'd love to learn it.  If so, I have an email (If it's a .pdf or anything)
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NightShader
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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2005, 11:32:22 AM »

Do you mean the piano sheets?
Or a piano-record music?

I don't have the sheets... I just played it right out of my head...
But I could make you one though...
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Pascal van Stekelenburg
NightShader
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« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2005, 10:12:18 AM »

Some more piano pieces of me...

http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/Crime.mp3
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/DancingGhosts.mp3
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/WanderingGirl.mp3
http://www.liquidgamestudios.com/music/WanderingGirl%20Orchestrated.mp3
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Pascal van Stekelenburg
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